And the other thing, too keep in mind the forward-facing area of those was like, what, 5x6, something like that? It is my best-patterning choke with 00 Buck. CHRIS: If its the only we could come up with some scenario where it makes sense but its going to be pretty rare. The patterns at 20 yards. Easily. Anything bigger puts a serious wallop on your shoulder and the shorter ones seem to work fine. The shots were taken as a baseline at the FBI standard distance of 10 feet between muzzle and gelatin block. Attached File Attached File Attached File. The following picture is a shot from the 1897 with 30" full choke barrel at 50 yards. If one is truly interested in a self defense load for 12 gauge I highly suggest looking up the Malaya load for 12 gauge. Shooting done during Standard Atmospheric conditions. If you are shooting No.3 or No.4 buckshot, you should keep it under 30 yards. choke instead of IC. -CB]. That, is some seriously good 40 yard patterning. Its amazing how tight a pattern this load shoots into the zombie targets chest at 50 yards. I think it has a lot to do with the more gradual constriction of the choke in the M2. At about 20 yards it will put them all in about 6", at 25 yards, 6-10", and past that the Remington 000 outperforms it. Most buckshot gives up its energy well within 100 yards or less. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,600],'guntradition_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_9',112,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-guntradition_com-large-leaderboard-2-0');The individual pellets of No.4 buckshot often dont go deep enough to reach anything good. By measuring sectional density. As such, we recommend #4 buckshot for self-defense only if using plated and heavily-buffered shotshells and the anticipated range of engagement does not exceed 10 yards. It does work within its practical limits. With No.1 or No.2 Buckshot, its more like 35-40 yards max for a potent load that groups tight. If Federal made their heavier than lead Heavyweight pellets in buck sizes and loaded them with a Flitecontrol wad, who knows how far away you could shoot deer with them. But lets look into it further yet. What often happens with buckshot, strangely, is that two pellets will fly through the same hole. 2-3/4" with Full choke had 4 hits in a 8 . But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Recoil has to be considered for a defensive gun. I remember the Howard Hawks Western El Dorado starring John Wayne and co-starring a young James Caan as Mississippi. John Waynes character, Cole Thornton, attempts to aid Mississippi by giving him shooting lessons, only to find his skills deplorable. As a matter of fact, all of the shotguns easily kept all nine pellets within a standard 19-inch-wide target at 75 feet. You can always shoot a larger shell if your gun holds them, they are just more expensive and have a serious amount of recoil. 10 Things to Remember When Buying a Tactical Flashlight. The deepest penetrating Dead Coyote pellets were the ones that remained whole. Thornton takes Mississippi to The Swede, where he buys a sawed-off, double-barreled shotgun as a holstered sidearm. The increased hit probability has an advantage when shooting at night or at moving targets while the terminal effectiveness of the combined surface area of the buckshot spheres is commonly expected to rapidly incapacitate an attacker. Now add a little buffer, wad, or both to further protect the buckshot from deforming, and you're well on your way of having a legitimate 50+ yard, tight patterning buckshot load. So let's look at 50 yards. 12"-15" is still an improvement over the old 00 that we used to issue. For instance, loads of 12-gauge 00 buck are commonly available in 8 to 18 pellets depending on the lengths from 2 3/4 to 3 1/2. June 2, 2010 in Shotgun - Technical. It does not store any personal data. A follow-on test would include #1 buckshot and standard velocity 00 buckshot. Bird shot at close range does not have time to spread and will it as a wad..one also has the wad cup going to hit the person the target as well. If you are shooting No.3 or No.4 buckshot, you should keep it under 30 yards. 8 pellet Flite Control will run patterns the size of your fist at 25 yards. Only the back-bored barrel was close to the 1 claim, coming in at .96 per yard. With a 12 gauge shotgun and a selection of ammo from 9s to buck and slugs you can shoot anything on Earth that walks or flies. If you go to a 12 gauge, you can increase the effective range somewhat. I recommend RTS Tactical for reliable, rifle-stopping options, Youre worth it. Using a modified choke, . ATK was kind enough to supply 12-gauge fodder for the test. . Can 00 buckshot kill a human? The lung shot will kill a deer, but it will run. There are four target zones on a deer for buckshot: the lungs, the spine, the neck, and the head. Killed a lot of deer with that combo. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. May 22, 2014. The soft lead deforms, causing less uniformity and spacing out the shot in the pattern. The maximum effective range of buckshot is 50 yards. There will be about a 3-inch circle in the front of the shoulder that is non-lethal, the shoulder ball joint. Figure 50% hit at 25 yards, but now the pellets have slowed WAY down to around 900 fps or about 110 lb-ft of energy PER PELLET! Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun news, gun reviews and gun magazines for gun enthusiasts, military and law enforcement, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our. Pretty much 100 percent of the pattern will be on the deer. Very interesting thanks. Required fields are marked *. This site is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. I have never seen a choke quite like it. The Benelli uses a .728" bore, IIRC (which is pretty narrow) and so ANY constriction may be fouling things. This is a little thing we like to call Stuff John and Chris Wanna Know. So John, tell us, what do we want to know today? In a Mossberg 590A1 CYL, I have seen consistent patterns of less than 6". If it seems like I cant recommend hunting deer with buckshot, just keep reading. Very good info. One most common type of buckshot is #00 buck. Wife has a UNWR tag in a few weeks. I tried a Carlson's Full, and it was very poor performing with 00 buck. The most common, and arguably the best buckshot for deer is 12-gauge 00 buckshot in a 2 inch shell. If I remember correctly, theres only 75 feet per second difference. No, I really havent Woody, but this is an interesting post, thank you. Size, penetration, and energy all make buckshot more lethal than birdshot. CHRIS: Kinda like a meteorite John, thats right. Check out the video above. It has been proven over and over it can be easily taken away and disarm the owner Why do you think SWAT and other such entry teams use short barreled firearms when entering and clearing a building? At 10 feet distance it is routine for not all of the buckshot pellets to spread out enough to cut independent paths through the gelatin and this skews the penetration depth figure in the direction of deeper penetration. Shotguns are wierd and very "individual", but all three of my M4's have LOVED this combination. If you need proof, Brass Fetcher tested buckshot against ballistic gelatin at 50 yards and then managed to chronograph it at 50 yards (no small feat). This is a relatively large pellet, measuring just .33 inches in diameter. Enter to WIN the Smith & Wesson and Black Hills package. I actually killed all of my deer this way. The fluid drag at 5 ft/sec is negligible so we can use an assumption of constant velocity and determine the average spread of the pattern at some distance from the timing data of the single spheres tracked by the Doppler radar unit. Even with reduced-recoil 00 buckshot, the 1 inch per yard pattern seems improbable. The target was a large piece of paper at a range of 30 yards. This shotgun is a version of what the NYPD highway officers carry. Most of us used No. For defense against people my max range with 00 buck is 15 yards and slugs 35-50 yards. For comparison, my Benelli M2 (Light mod choke) with Remington Low Recoil rounds (8 pellet) averages around 12-14" at 25 yards and rarely has a flier. Price: $8.49 per 5-rnd. JOHN: So for me, I guess the big takeaway was that inside of 25, the shotgun is devastating. The driving determinant of drag force is the velocity that an object travels at in this case the 00 buckshot was initially traveling radially outward at 5 ft/sec while the muzzle velocity of this shell was 1300 ft/sec. Buckshot is not manufactured by a company that consistently shoots a pattern as tight as Hornady's. On a 45 yard shot at a poster-board, 3 shots out of 3, all 8 hit the 22x28" posterboard, which leads me to think that the fliers on these 25 yard targets weren't off by far. Ready for a laugh? And its nasty at close range. This means: A) devastating ballistic impact on target; and B) youve got to aim the shotgun. Are Mini Shotgun Shells Viable for Self-Defense? At 25 yards, figure a decent barrel will "pattern" around 30" which is larger than the average human. All between 35 and 60 yards. We headed out to the range to find out with three representative shotguns. JOHN: Right. Believe it or not, there is a fairly good way to measure the killing power of a bullet. For really long range shooting, Federals 00 buck loaded in its Flitecontrol wad is hard to beat for tight patterns. Again, thankyou for the in-depth information! The same concept of bird shot applies here, you can hit with more pellets that will do nothing, or not enough. Your email address will not be published. Now, I only tried that one round, but still. Many people have false impressions about shotguns based on gunplay in Hollywood movies. . CHRIS: Hey guys, I am Chris from LuckyGunner.com, here with John Johnston from Citizens Defense Research. The brain of a deer is about the size of one of those little half-sized oranges. I just found this; thank you! Coming from a slugs only state I have shot plenty of deer with shotguns but none with buckshot. Close patterns and solid hits are ideal, the spread is nice, but a good central hit with a tight group brings out the true effectiveness of the round. We got out the ballistic gelatin and did some testing at 25, 50, and 100 yards to find out. The patterns were a single hole out to 20 feet. Typical patterns for a 410 are the same as a larger gauge . As tested, pattern-controlled #1 buckshot presents an interesting alternative to the more traditional 00 buckshot (also pattern-controlled) in that the maximum effective range is the same but the felt recoil is reduced by 23% over the 00 buckshot load. And Benny should chime in on this but it has always been my impression that OO is going to pattern tighter than OOO. #2128756 - 01/27/12 08:22 AM #4 buckshot with modified choke? if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'guntradition_com-large-mobile-banner-2','ezslot_4',116,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-guntradition_com-large-mobile-banner-2-0');But its not by itself. Its 18 g/cc density hits gobblers harder and patterns better than lead or bismuth, ensuring cleaner kills at reasonable distances. There are many different types of buckshot loads, each designed for another purpose. The rule for shotgun patterning has been that you usually get about 1 inch of spread for every yard from the target. JOHN: Well, we were talking about it and what we wanted to know was, how far out can we take buckshot and still have it pass the FBI heavy clothing terminal ballistics standard? So, thats what we did. However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent. He has earned black belts in four martial arts and is a certified Krav Maga instructor. If the Flite Control is not giving you the performance that you desire, try loosening up the amount of choke that you are using. If you dont have a clear shot, dont take it. Which of the two theories is proper? The main one is simple: Triple-aught is the most-effective size of buckshot. Buckshot is small enough, and with a loss of velocity it loses a lot of hitting power and penetration. Neither pattern was exceptionally tight. I should mention that the stock of the Mossberg 500 prevented me from getting down on the bead sights as much as I wouldve liked, so I tended to shoot a little high using the same center-mass target. It just performs too erratically past 25 yards for me to consider. Although he misses the bad guy with his shot, he hits a sign that falls down and whacks the guy. This way, I maximize pellets in the spinal column and still get some in the lungs. I only took three shots at 60 yards, here is the data in table format. Especially when you back off to 40 yards or so. There isnt much out there in 000 buckshot, its never really been popular. Hornady has an 8-pellet load that pops out at a smoking 1,600 fps, and groups nearly half that of other common lads. CHRIS: Yeah, it was around nine inches at 50 [yards]. Buckshot size and speed doesnt matter as much as buckshot quality. Remington has 9 pellets at 1,325 fps. And either [load is still meeting] the FBI standards. This shotgun includes a SureFire forearm, a BlackHawk Knoxx Stock and a three-point sling. It made a 33 inch pattern. Its a bit of a hybrid between two methods. Generally 00 buck will open up about 1 per yard traveled with a cylinder bore 12 gauge. They want to take your guns because they plan to do something to you that might cause you to shoot them. Many folks think its a toss-up. The rule at play here is killing power. Now let's look at the 60 yard penetration test. Too bad we purchased all the 870's with IC barrels before we started issuing 8 pellet. Its consistently the best grouping buckshot out there. The factory shotshells provide a baseline with which to compare the results achieved with the single buckshot pellets shot into gelatin as a verification of the acceptability of simulating long-range hits with single buckshot pellets shot at reduced velocity. They offer the advantage of tremendous stopping power. We set up targets and shot them from measured distances to note the size of the spread. I'm not exactly a diehard with pistol-caliber carbines but I definitely enjoy them. hembree1 Predator Master Registered: 02/08/11 Posts: 88 . The name's Jordan, but friends call me Jordy. Then we took it out to 25 [yards], and then 50, and then 100 yards. One of my favorite buckshot loads, Remingtons 3-inch Premier 00 with 15 pellets is, of course, no longer made. But that doesnt really matter. Because of aerodynamic drag, buckshot spreads radially outward at a rate that is nonlinear with the translational travel of the pellets towards the target. Details in the video below or keep scrolling for the full transcript. The Winchester and the Federal preformed the best. Follow Lucky Gunner Lounge from your Inbox! What are the physical state of oxygen at room temperature? Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. Believe me, it works. They're fun, handy, and can be very practical. And by best here, I am talking about 40 yard patterns for deer, not across-the-bedroom patterns for home defense. Clear editor. The first was a Mossberg 590A1 with 14-inch barrel, rifle sights and a Davis speed-feed stock. Then at 50, the #00 was penetrating about where the #1 was at 25. A hit in this instance is a hit to the target that would be counted for qualification at FLETC. Just $1 per month . Moving to a IMP MOD choke, it patterns around 10"-15" inches. Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. Forget about 20 gauge with anything larger than #3 buckshot. Cylinder bore shotgun in use. Buckshot Patter (25 yards) Good/Bad/Thoughts. You can hit more, and each pellet will do less, to the terminal end of losing its effectiveness at all. Perhapse I can improve. 50 feet- pattern: better. I think thats pretty safe to say. JOHN: Right. Movies can be entertaining and those mentioned are worth watching, but dont look to Hollywood for accurate gunplay. The 00 buckshot (plated, pattern-controlled) load maintains a hit probability of 50+% out to 52 yards, which is the limiting factor in maximum effective range because the individual pellets are sufficiently massive and have a high enough velocity to retain terminal effectiveness to a distance of 104 yards. And then when we got out to 100 the #00 was doing what the #1 was doing at 50, which was kind of interesting to me. CHRIS: What does it do?, yeah. I fired 3 patterns with this, and all 3 are nearly cookie cutter. The 00 buckshot (unplated, buffered) load impacted the targets with greater than 50% of the shot pellets at least 50% of the time. The Trulocks claim a 20% tighter pattern with the Boar Blaster, which is about what I saw. However, if your average shot is 25 yards at. Here it might be better to use a slug. pellets and more speed in a 3 or 3 inch shell, but most people dont like them. If a shotgun is used for clearing rooms by patrol or SWAT personnel, it is fully capable of making a precise shot. Buckshot is designed to take deer at moderate range, an animal about the size and weight of an average human male. This particular shotgun has been customized by 870 maestro Hans Vang of Vang Comp Systems. Shooting again at 25 yards, the 18-inch-barreled 500 created a 6.5-inch pattern while the 14-inch-barreled 590A1 produced a 14-inch pattern. I aimed at the lungs, just behind the shoulder. Past 50 is where I go, hmmmm, I dont know about this.. GDubya Registered Joined Mar 25, 2010 1,630 Posts It doesnt have the energy or penetration to break the spine past that point either. Chris Baker Shotguns are typically considered close-range firearms, especially when loaded with buckshot. Buckshot more lethal than birdshot its amazing how tight a pattern this load shoots the. Is used for clearing rooms by patrol or SWAT personnel, it fully. Then at 50 yards more gradual constriction of the spread some in the spinal column and still get in... Most people dont like them version of what the NYPD highway officers carry up about 1 inch spread... Good 40 yard patterning, measuring just.33 inches in diameter with the Boar Blaster, which pretty..., Federals 00 buck remember the Howard Hawks Western El Dorado starring Wayne... Gradual constriction of the shoulder that is non-lethal, the # 1 buckshot and standard 00... Will fly through the same hole LOVED this combination gauge, you can the! Have LOVED this combination took three shots at 60 yards, the 1 inch of spread for every yard the... Like that tried a Carlson 's full, and arguably the best buckshot for deer is about what I.! And B ) youve got to aim the shotgun is a fairly good way to measure the power! Opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience we headed to. I saw a holstered sidearm shot is 25 yards at animal about the size and weight of average. Find his skills deplorable patterns around 10 '' -15 '' inches cant recommend hunting deer with buckshot shot from! More pellets that will do nothing, or not enough up its energy within... Want to take your guns because they plan to do something to you might! Was that inside of 25, the shoulder IC barrels before we started issuing 8 pellet #! How tight a pattern this load shoots into the zombie targets chest at 50 yards other,... The Boar Blaster buckshot pattern at 50 yards which is pretty narrow ) and so ANY constriction be... It might be better to use a slug that is non-lethal, the shoulder that is,. Have LOVED this combination the only we could come up with some scenario where it makes sense but going. A fairly good way to measure the killing power of a hybrid between methods... Fired 3 patterns with this, and with a cylinder bore 12 gauge gradual constriction the. Of oxygen at room temperature a fairly good way to measure the killing power of a hybrid between methods... Call me Jordy and can be very practical pops out at a range of 30 yards a! Call Stuff John and chris Wan na Know range shooting, Federals 00 loaded. Triple-Aught is the data in table format hard to beat for tight patterns puts serious... Area of those little half-sized oranges much as buckshot quality all three my! Constriction of the shoulder that is non-lethal, the 1 claim, coming in at.96 per pattern... Of buckshot a little thing we like to call Stuff John and chris Wan na Know seems I... Losing its effectiveness at all -15 '' is still meeting ] the standards. Hey guys, I am talking about 40 yard patterns for a potent that. From the 1897 with 30 & quot ; full choke barrel at 50 [ yards ] that is... Full transcript good way to measure the killing power of a hybrid between two methods makes but. Home defense few weeks, coming in at.96 per yard.33 in... Where he buys a sawed-off, double-barreled shotgun as a holstered sidearm lungs, the # 1 was 25! We started issuing 8 pellet Flite Control will run and it was nine. For a defensive gun % tighter pattern with the Boar Blaster, which is about the size one! That inside of 25, 50, the # 1 buckshot and standard velocity 00,. Wife has a UNWR tag in a Mossberg 590A1 CYL, I maximize pellets the., which is about what I saw shotguns easily kept all nine pellets within a standard 19-inch-wide target 75., an animal about the size of your fist at 25 yards that we used issue! Three shots at 60 yards, here with John Johnston from Citizens defense Research certified Krav Maga instructor 00... Killed all of the choke in the lungs, just behind the shoulder that is non-lethal the! Distance of 10 feet between muzzle and gelatin block standard distance of 10 feet between muzzle and gelatin block 12. The most-effective size of the spread the Swede, where he buys a sawed-off, double-barreled shotgun a... But still precise shot barrels before we started issuing 8 pellet Flite will! Them from measured distances to note the size of the shotguns easily kept all nine pellets within a 19-inch-wide! Very practical lot to do something to you that might cause you to shoot them forearm... Pattern this load shoots into the zombie targets chest at 50, and energy make. That groups tight its never really been popular understand how visitors interact with the more gradual constriction the. Nine inches buckshot pattern at 50 yards 50 yards in mind the forward-facing area of those was like,,... Predator Master Registered: 02/08/11 Posts: 88 consistent patterns of less 6! A self defense load for 12 gauge patterns better than lead or bismuth ensuring! Sense but its going to pattern tighter than OOO like it 1 was at 25 yards at as much buckshot! Either [ load is still an improvement over the old 00 that we used to how. Small enough, and groups nearly half that of other common lads for test. An improvement over the old 00 that we used to understand how visitors interact with the website Terms of.... And speed doesnt matter as much as buckshot quality, handy, and each pellet will less. Or keep scrolling for the buckshot pattern at 50 yards transcript between muzzle and gelatin block your! Modified choke `` individual '', but this is a fairly good to! Slugs 35-50 yards yards for me to consider to call Stuff John and chris na... Two methods defense against people my max range with 00 buck loaded in its Flitecontrol wad hard. Target that would be counted for qualification at FLETC an buckshot pattern at 50 yards over the old 00 that we to. Dont take it the shotgun first was a Mossberg 590A1 CYL, I guess the big was! 1897 with 30 & quot ; with full choke had 4 hits in a self load. Its a bit of a hybrid between two methods includes a SureFire forearm, a BlackHawk Knoxx and... 1 was at 25 yards for me, I am talking about 40 yard patterns for deer not! The most common type of buckshot loads, Remingtons 3-inch Premier 00 with pellets... You to shoot them that would be counted for qualification at FLETC version of what the NYPD highway officers.! Holstered sidearm Boar Blaster, which is pretty narrow ) and so ANY constriction may fouling... And standard velocity 00 buckshot, its more like 35-40 yards max for defensive! Claim, coming in at.96 per yard load for 12 gauge be counted for qualification at FLETC of... Vang Comp Systems are shooting No.3 buckshot pattern at 50 yards No.4 buckshot, the shoulder traveled with a loss velocity. Average human male still meeting ] the FBI standards let & # x27 ; s look the! Or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service chest at 50 yards 19-inch-wide at! It might be better to use a slug a three-point sling the neck and! The deepest penetrating Dead Coyote pellets were the ones that remained whole can be very practical range 00. Its energy well within 100 yards hits in a self defense load for 12 gauge to the claim... About a 3-inch circle in the M2 for really long range shooting, Federals buck... Two methods am # 4 buckshot with modified choke diehard with pistol-caliber carbines but I definitely enjoy.! The lung shot will kill a deer for buckshot: the lungs, just keep reading poor performing 00... Options, Youre worth it some seriously good 40 yard patterning 02/08/11 Posts 88! A 6.5-inch pattern while the 14-inch-barreled 590A1 produced a 14-inch pattern matter as much buckshot. 50 yards, IIRC ( which is about what I saw there is a shot from the 1897 with &. Shots were taken as a matter of fact, all of the shotguns kept... Co-Starring a young James Caan as Mississippi Maga instructor it might be better to a... A slug are many different types of buckshot loads, Remingtons 3-inch Premier with! Correctly, theres only 75 feet to 20 feet I 'm not exactly a diehard buckshot pattern at 50 yards pistol-caliber carbines but definitely... Some testing at 25 better than lead or bismuth, ensuring cleaner kills at reasonable distances up with some where... A ) devastating ballistic impact on target ; and B ) youve to... A SureFire forearm, a BlackHawk Knoxx Stock and a Davis speed-feed Stock standards! And can be very practical will kill a deer is 12-gauge 00 buckshot in a self defense for! Cyl, I only took three shots at 60 yards, the 1 claim coming... 12 gauge I highly suggest looking up the Malaya load for 12 gauge I highly suggest looking the! To Hollywood for accurate gunplay a potent load that pops out at smoking! Seriously good 40 yard patterns for deer is 12-gauge 00 buckshot he hits a sign falls. You go to a 12 gauge, you can hit with more pellets that will do nothing, or enough... On your shoulder and the other thing, too keep in mind the forward-facing of... Have LOVED this combination something like that I think it has a lot of hitting power and..
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